User talk:Arvan Swordwielder

Hello!
Hi, welcome to my talk page. Feel free to post here, I just ask you to remain civil. ●

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Prince Caspian edits
Hi Arvan.

Sorry, that was me who made those edits to the Prince Caspian film page; I didn't realise I wasn't logged in! Sorry for the confusion! lol (LightSpirit06 20:51, June 22, 2012 (UTC))

Sorry if i did not qrite the meaning of Narnia right. Turns out i forgot to read you guildlines before i wrote the page

Magician's Nephew references
Hi, why did you delete the articles of some of the first things mentioned in The Magician's Nephew: Sherlock Holmes, The Bastables, Baker Street and Lewisham Road? These are included in canon (the articles were fully referenced as such), and perhaps the first thing that readers will come across and want to know more about: as such I feel that this wiki should provide at least a pointer for where to find more information. Though the articles as they stood they had little more than what was mentioned about them in the book, I was planning on adding to them when I had the chance, and they served as placeholders for others to expand on them. -- xensyria T 23:17, July 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I'm responsible for that. I recommended deleting them because they have nothing to do with the Narnia canon. The names and such are mentioned in the "The Magician's Nephew" at the start, but have nothing to do with the Narnia stories. Sherlock Holmes and everything belong to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, not Lewis. If people want to learn more about Baker Street...etc, then they should go to the [Sherlock Holmes wiki site]. But this is Narnia wikia. The places are all mentioned in some pages, such as the Narnian timeline, which is more than adequate. The only more info you could add is again nothing to do with Narnia. Storyseeker1 (talk) 23:35, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * "they have nothing to do with the Narnia canon" - apart from being included in Narnian canon by Lewis himself that is. I can't see what's gained by removing them, while readers that are interested to find out how they are part of the Narnia canon will come here (and want to know what their significance in the book is, i.e. providing a background date for The Magician's Nephew). There's nowhere else that would explain that connection, as the crossover is one way. All fictional universe wikis tend to allow small articles on similarly briefly mentioned topics, with links to sites that you mention which have extensive information on the topic (without the article, they wouldn't be able to find the best sites as easily). -- xensyria T 00:41, July 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * P.S. I suggested the background of the wiki you mentioned to Nisheeth back in the day... what do you think of it? :D -- xensyria T 00:46, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * There's nothing to gain by adding them either. There is no crossover, persay. Lewis only mentions Holmes...etc, as a reference to give the reader some idea of what timeframe the book is set in, which the Narnian Timeline also does. Holmes is just as much a fictional character in the Narnia stories, as he is in real life. If Lewis had ever instigated that Holmes and lot actually existed in his books, he would have received a hefty copywright fine for using another author's characters. They are all only mentioned in a brief paragraph on the first page, and never again. The info is small, un-necessary, and virtually nothing to do with Narnia, which is what this website is all about. They are mentioned on the Narnian Timeline page, as I've already said, which is sufficient enough. Adding a whole page just to say they're mentioned is un-necessary, and a waste of internet space. Storyseeker1 (talk) 01:33, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think only C.S. Lewis can really decide what's "un-necessary" to his canon, and his fair use of these characters doesn't need to infringe copyright to be notable; the fact that he's mentioned characters at all constitutes a crossover. By your logic the Swanwhite article and all other Narnian characters that are "only mentioned in a brief paragraph" should be deleted. And by the logic of your first reply, Father Christmas and all articles dealing with things in the real world (you know, London, Colney Hatch, all the books, films and actors) should also be deleted.


 * So, when C.S. Lewis writes that The Magician's Nephew takes place when these characters lived he brings them into his universe, that he writes this at the very start of a book brings them notability (they're not hidden in some obscure part of the series), and as such many readers will want to know more, which is the job of this wiki. It is this, and not some idea of how much of Wikia's (or the internet's) space we're taking up, or where the reader should know where to find this information (especially when the Bastables have very little written about them on the internet) that should decide if we have an article or not.


 * But as this is a wiki, there should surely be a policy (ideally the result of a community discussion) that an article contravenes before an editor's work is removed. -- xensyria T 08:38, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * You talk as if we're discussing altering his books themselves, but we're not. This is a Narnia website that hosts information about all the contents of the Narnia books, but only them. Sherlock Holmes deserves a mention, which it does on the Narnian Timeline page, but nothing more. (Note: it's actually Douglas Gresham who now owns the copyright to Narnia, and thus can decide what's necessary or not)


 * That is completely different. Swanwhite and the others are all original characters to Lewis's books. Sherlock Holmes, however, is not, he belongs to Doyle. And London is not a character, it's a place, so anyone can write about it, but I still feel the info should be kept basic. And the films are all about Narnia, hence the reason why they and the actors who portrayed in them are mentioned.


 * Father Christmas is not a fictional character, per say. He's a mythical character. He wasn't written by anyone (at least not by anyone who can remember). Therefore, no one owns the copyright to him.


 * I actually agree with you about deleting the page about Colney Hatch. The place was mentioned in "The Magician's Nephew" book, but shouldn't have a whole page, just a mention in the trivia of the MN page.


 * If you want to write about the Bastables and such, then go to the Sherlock Holmes wiki site. Lewis also mentions that boys used to wear stiff Eton collars, but I'm not going to add a whole page about them. If someone wants to learn more about Holmes and such, then they should go search on the internet, same as I did, hence the Sherlock wiki site.


 * As for the community thing, you can start a discussion, asking people what they think. Storyseeker1 (talk) 12:26, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * It seems we have a fundamental difference of opinion on what the purpose of wikis is. My vision is for them to be places that people interested in the series can come and find out more about anything to do with a series, and hopefully lose themselves in the fictional world, stumbling upon things they didn't know before, whether it be the history of Ettinsmoor, who the first king of Narnia was, what Eton collars were, or what the story of the Bastables was (and so they would, for example, know that they are completely unrelated to Sherlock Holmes, except in setting). Of course, tangential topics wouldn't have page long articles, but anything that C.S. Lewis mentions should at least be explained in terms of its place in canon, and this will become more and more important the more times passes since he wrote the books, and things he took for granted are no longer instantly recognised by his readers.


 * From what you've said, it seems you're instead concerned with copyright to the exclusion of anything that isn't owned by the companies involved. Complete anathema to me.


 * But the difference of opinion was obvious from the fact you had the articles deleted, and my question to Arvan still stands: why were the articles deleted when there is no written policy that they break? I've been an interested reader for years and occasional contributor for about a year and a half, so to be told what should and shouldn't be in this wiki by an editor who has only just joined is more than a bit patronising. -- xensyria T 17:48, July 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * I apologise, I didn't think those articles were necessary and they were marked for deletion, so I deleted them. I have restored Sherlock Holmes and The Bastables, but I think Baker Street and Lewisham Road are too obscure and unnecessary. I am not calling anyone out on this one (I am partially at fault myself), but in the future, if an article is deemed delete-worthy, please simply post the template at the top of the page and explain why you think the page should be removed on its talk page. Except in cases of obvious non-canon/nonsense/inappropriate content, the article will remain for a period of time so others can contribute their opinions. Unfortunately, one of the reasons this doesn't work out so well is the lack of active users in this wiki's community.
 * That's very good of you, thanks, and I'll try to make more regular edits when I can. -- xensyria T 22:51, July 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks!